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#43 by gulfgal98
Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:36 pm
jpmasser has a diary up at GOS about the Ferguson protests which were happening in over 170 cities throughout the United States. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/2 ... ey-protest

Brooklyn bad boy made a couple of comments that panned the protests. I waded into the discussion asking him what he would do and his answer surprised me. http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1347586/55086377

Perhaps my comment showed how little I do know. I am beginning to wonder if my white privilege is showing. Anyway, I am having trouble processing how we fight back against injustices if we do not do something.
#55 by UnabashedLiberal
Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:56 pm
Hey, Nancy--glad you brought this topic up.

BBB's wrong--or more to the point, that is a strictly "partisan" answer.

I'm one who thinks, with her current 48% "unfavorables" that Hillary probably can't win in 2016, period.

And, no doubt, "Ferguson," if nothing is done to relieve the situation for the Black Community there--and we know that nothing will be--is really going to destroy the Dem Party's standing with this Community, nationwide.

That's why BBB is trying to persuade "folks" of all colors to just drop the subject and move on.

Sorry, if that sounds jaded, but I think that it's pretty much true.

That was also the primary reason for all the frantic machinations BEFORE the decision was rendered. (that and fear of "property damage")

Nixon's a Dem, the President's a Dem.

Do any of us believe that any of the Democratic Party Leadership will put their credibility and power on the line for low income Americans, of any color?

I don't.

And it will come back to bite them in 2016, when the most loyal part of the Dem Base takes a pass on voting.

Just My Two Cents . . .
#58 by gulfgal98
Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:03 pm
I had not thought about his reply in that context. But now that you say it, it makes sense.

Honestly, I took heart from reading jpmasser's diary on the protests nationwide. What I saw from the photos of many of these protests were a lot of white faces and that is good, very good. To me, it means that the issue of police brutality and the shoot to kill attitude of so many in the police forces across the nation is finally starting to reach the consciousness of the white population. IMHO, any cause in which you can get allies is always going to be stronger.

The point of my own post is that what I am seeing is a country that is near the verge of revolt, not just because of this issue, but also because of the banksters, the huge gaps in equality, the continuing wars, and the surveillance state, among other issues. I think a lot of people are connecting the dots. That is why I was so puzzled by his response that black people should just get out of there. It did not make sense in my context, but it does make sense in yours. He was just trying to shut down the conversation because it came too close to the Democratic party's own interests.

Thanks for a great explanation!
#84 by lapsedlawyer
Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:25 am
Yeah, I'm with UL on this one. Either bbb's defeatism is come by honestly (in that he honestly believes there are no solutions within our current political framework) or it's a method of deflecting and avoiding the hard work to organize what truly needs to be done to right this sinking ship: Mass action.

I'm guessing the latter, as my impression in the past has been he's one of the move-along-nothing-to-see-here crowd, particularly when it comes to criticism of the Ds. Also, he probably doesn't see the effectiveness of mass actions in terms of quick solutions to deep systemic problems, and he may truly be conflicted about his overall worship of the Ds due to the D in front of the names of the governor, mayor, and prosecutor, all of whom have shown an unconscionable callousness toward one of the mainstays of their "core constituency" or "base." Just gotta keep pluggin' away in that system, looking for that better Dem while voting for the suckiest ones out there.
#85 by gulfgal98
Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:55 am
For those who have not read it, LeftHandedMan's diary at dkos today is a must read. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/2 ... an-t-Stand

LHM often "writes" what could be whole diaries in his comments, but I am so glad that he put this one into diary form. It is the best yet on the farcical tragedy of the grand jury in Ferguson. IMHO, his writing in this diary is poetry in prose.
#121 by Sharharazade
Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:39 pm
I'm getting an error message here if I try to reply through the +reply button. but the quick reply option is working. So I think BBB is having problems emotionally and pysoclocially with what is going down with this administration. He is not in denial like many AA's on dkos. He can't quite formulate a response to this. flee? Well hell where the hell would the AA community in Ferguson go? I'm a white 'privileged' woman yet where would I flee to? We are all at this point even if we have money, we are tied to this global mess.

I think what were seeing with BBB is the emotional and rational breakdown of the Democratic true believers with half a brain left. I prefer his volatile swings these days to his pledge of allegiance to the Dems due to Obama. the symbol that needs to go. I hope he stops this cycle wherein all success is gauged by how well the cop's or the military do in any situation. Flee is not the answer in der Homeland, the ME, or anywhere globally. I feel for the people caught in believing that there is no solution other then fleeing or putting up with this shit. It is not inevitable and we all need to somehow realize that the powers that be who define success are truly messed up and regardless of race need to be countered and not listened to.

This is a hard time made harder with the absolute breakdown of any meaningful governance or relevance of politics. The personal is political and BBB is caught between a rock and a hard place. He is no Malley but he floats in nowhere land. I feel for him and yet I don't understand his vacillation between letting go of the status quo and calling for people to flee. I know he does volunteer work in Brooklyn for POC in regards to housing but I think he like Obama considers that success for black people lies within the perimeters set by the powers that be. I might be totally off but just my 2 cents.
#122 by Sharharazade
Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:40 pm
I'm getting an error message here if I try to reply through the +reply button. but the quick reply option is working. So I think BBB is having problems emotionally and physiologically with what is going down with this administration. He is not in denial like many AA's on dkos. He can't quite formulate a response to this. flee? Well hell where the hell would the AA community in Ferguson go? I'm a white 'privileged' woman yet where would I flee to? We are all at this point even if we have money, we are tied to this global mess.

I think what were seeing with BBB is the emotional and rational breakdown of the Democratic true believers with half a brain left. I prefer his volatile swings these days to his pledge of allegiance to the Dems due to Obama. the symbol that needs to go. I hope he stops this cycle wherein all success is gauged by how well the cop's or the military do in any situation. Flee is not the answer in der Homeland, the ME, or anywhere globally. I feel for the people caught in believing that there is no solution other then fleeing or putting up with this shit. It is not inevitable and we all need to somehow realize that the powers that be who define success are truly messed up and regardless of race need to be countered and not listened to.

This is a hard time made harder with the absolute breakdown of any meaningful governance or relevance of politics. The personal is political and BBB is caught between a rock and a hard place. He is no Malley but he floats in nowhere land. I feel for him and yet I don't understand his vacillation between letting go of the status quo and calling for people to flee. I know he does volunteer work in Brooklyn for POC in regards to housing but I think he like Obama considers that success for black people lies within the perimeters set by the powers that be. I might be totally off but just my 2 cents.
#201 by lapsedlawyer
Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:03 am
gulfgal98 wrote:

The point of my own post is that what I am seeing is a country that is near the verge of revolt, not just because of this issue, but also because of the banksters, the huge gaps in equality, the continuing wars, and the surveillance state, among other issues. I think a lot of people are connecting the dots. That is why I was so puzzled by his response that black people should just get out of there. It did not make sense in my context, but it does make sense in yours. He was just trying to shut down the conversation because it came too close to the Democratic party's own interests.



There are some folks who think the era of effective street protest was over by the early 70s with the end of the antiwar movement against Vietnam (occasioned by the end of the war). Some may put it over with the Central America solidarity movement and antinuclear movement of the 80s.

But the importance of such street protests is not merely in whether or not they succeed in changing a policy course, but just in being seen, to show those who are connecting the dots (or who, more likely, see that there are some dots that need connecting) that they are not alone. That people are out there who, like them, care and want to do something about it. That's the secret of how movements are built: Showing up = giving a shit, and a lot of people want to give a shit but are simply too cowed by the isolation forced on us by the FYIGM mentality fostered by our current socioeconomic morass.

That's what BBB doesn't get: Building a movement is more important than cheering on a team.*

*Yeah, I'm likely to run the sports analogy right into the ground, but it sure does fit, don't it?
#209 by gulfgal98
Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:55 am
lapsedlawyer wrote:
There are some folks who think the era of effective street protest was over by the early 70s with the end of the antiwar movement against Vietnam (occasioned by the end of the war). Some may put it over with the Central America solidarity movement and antinuclear movement of the 80s.

But the importance of such street protests is not merely in whether or not they succeed in changing a policy course, but just in being seen, to show those who are connecting the dots (or who, more likely, see that there are some dots that need connecting) that they are not alone. That people are out there who, like them, care and want to do something about it. That's the secret of how movements are built: Showing up = giving a shit, and a lot of people want to give a shit but are simply too cowed by the isolation forced on us by the FYIGM mentality fostered by our current socioeconomic morass.

That's what BBB doesn't get: Building a movement is more important than cheering on a team.*

*Yeah, I'm likely to run the sports analogy right into the ground, but it sure does fit, don't it?


I regret that I can only give you one thumbs up for your comment above. :D

A big part of the problem with political junkies is that they focus on the horse race and therefore, can only see change through the electoral process. But real change begins with the people first, usually in the form of social movements. I honestly think people like bbb and Marcos simply do not or cannot understand that concept. They have the process for change in the wrong order. The politicians and political process are the last to change, not the first. They are the gate keepers of the status quo and it takes a lot of change in the public for them to finally react positively. Until then, they will do everything in their power to negate change.

One of the main reasons I do the Peace vigil is that it gives me a chance to interact with other people in a one on one relationship. I cannot change the politicians directly, but I may change one or more people's minds. The second reason for going out in the public is often it is the only way to keep the issue in the minds of people. Our media has totally failed the public in that aspect.

Maybe it is my age. I am of the Viet Nam era. But I still believe it is foolhardy not to use every tool available to get our message out. For me, personally, going out on the sidewalk with a sign the reads "No More Wars...Try PEACE" and talking to people is the best way I can do something. It is something I am very comfortable with and it gives me an opportunity to actually have a conversation with one or more other humans. What I have found is that even with many people who are far more conservative than me politically, we can find some common ground in our conversations about the wars.

I want to add one more thing about the Ferguson protests specifically. People of color have been on the short end of the stick forever. Police brutality is one of those things. They have been patient and the system continues to beat them down. The Ferguson protests and riots are a symptom of the ills that our society has consistently inflicted upon PoC. We would not be seeing the Ferguson protests if our white majority society was treating PoC with respect and equality.

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